In which I am frustrated by wishful thinking

[jan_andrea]

There's a discussion going on at The BabyWearer about "The Secret" -- that money-making enterprise that basically says "wishing makes it so".

Argh.

If I hear "If you believe it, it's true for you!" one more time, I will scream. There are things that are objectively true, and objectively false. The world does not rest on the back of a tortise. The sun does not revolve around the earth, and there are no epicycles. The Virgin Mary does not miraculously appear in your grilled cheese to bring you a Sign. Believing these things doesn't make them happen!

I don't know why I bother :P Except that pseudoscience (someone brought up "What the Bleep do We Know" which is full of stupid) and magical thinking make me crazy. The universe is what it is, people! Just thinking about it -- no matter how strong you think your brain is -- doesn't change one damned thing about it! You have to *act*. And if you don't act, then you can't expect anything to change.

But I know, people will believe stupid things no matter how great the evidence to the contrary. Someone, please tell me to unsubscribe from the thread.

Comments

[ounceofreason.livejournal.com]

This is just the sort of talk I would expect from someone who doesn't even believe in Rainbow Bridge.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Oh my freaking glurge!

That was so overly sweet, my pancreas just jumped out of my body through my mouth.

[lovestohateyou.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU! When I heard about this I was all WTF and girl was all OMG it's truuuuuue. I wanted to stab myself.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

You and me both.

I wish they would teach critical thinking in school. Or at least, critical don't-let-preachy-assholes-steal-your-cash.

[rudbekia.livejournal.com]

Heh. Unsubscribe, Jan!

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

I wish I could sic CalGal on these wishy-washy folks, honestly. She'd tear them a new one. I assume. She doesn't go in for "The Secret," does she? If she did, my world would collapse.

[rudbekia.livejournal.com]

Well, you could do that, only she'd be banned in a hot second. And if she did go in for "The Secret," my world would collapse, too. Oh, there's been a thread dedicated to a similar board there. CG's not participating in it, though.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

The mental image of CG's brains exploding over every single forum of The BabyWearer (which is full of nuts just like me, only moreso) is really entertaining. I've never seen anyone get banned, but they do remove posts if they are too inflammatory.

I should visit TPW sometime. I had a dream about Julie C. a couple of weeks ago.

[rudbekia.livejournal.com]

Julie C. is pregnant now, so yeah, stop by and say hi :)

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Yay!

Not that I have the time most days, but a little couldn't hurt...

[joy-disaster.livejournal.com]

I have heard this kind of thing all over the place. Honestly? I think it is just another way to blame people for their hardships by claiming they don't have the right attitude.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Totally. People clamor all over this crap when it gets them something, but they don't consider the consequences of the inverse.

[joy-disaster.livejournal.com]

LOL, totally. I have even heard this in breast cancer literature. That survivors have "the right attitude" -- versus whom? Way to distract from the real issue.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

That's just sickening. Hearkens right back to the middle ages and before, when sickness was an outward sign of inner evil :P

[meadowrue.livejournal.com]

Oh my. I find myself becoming increasingly cynical the more I read about this kind of thing. It seems that there is an unending supply of new groups ready to exploit the pocketbooks of the hopeful and trusting. And when the skeptics speak out we are the ones that are reviled for spoiling the 'fun'. After all what fun is there in taking control and responsibility for yourself and accepting reality? Did you hear that Peter Popoff is back? Is his 'reality' true if you believe it as well. Aaargghh! We should be teaching skepticism and critical thinking in schools. It is apparently much needed.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

OMFG. I can't believe Popoff is still alive, let alone distributing his bullshit.

Speaking of bullshit, I would love to see Penn & Teller skewer "The Secret".

I agree that critical thinking should be taught in schools... but then kids would start questioning religion, and we couldn't have that.

[nutmeg.livejournal.com]

Have you visited, Why does got hate amputees?

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

No, but that is awesome. Thanks for the link!

[alabamadragon.livejournal.com]

Goodness, what an absolutely massive amount of total crap. There's mental power...yes, you can affect things like your health if you're positive about the outcome (placebos, anyone?) , and being depressed will make you physically ill. BUT - Just thinking about the winning lotto ticket isn't going to make it appear in my wallet.

If things like this were true, everyone would already be doing it, no one would work for a living, and the state of Texas/Bushworld would encompass the entire world.

[brunahildm.livejournal.com]

BUT - Just thinking about the winning lotto ticket isn't going to make it appear in my wallet.

Well, there go my plans for the weekend!

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

LOL

What are your plans for next weekend, btw? St. Patrick's day? Wanna come over for boiled food (or not boiled, if preferable) and Guiness? Or are you already bespoke?

[brunahildm.livejournal.com]

Sounds awesome! Saturday night?

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Yup!

[jenrose]

You mean you're not going to pay the tax on people who can't do math?

[brunahildm.livejournal.com]

Well, see, I had already planned this fabulous trip I was going to take with the winnings I was SURE I'd get, but now... I guess I'll just go to the movies.

[jenrose]

Heh, good thing you didn't spend the money on lottery tickets, you can afford the movies... :)

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

I thought your post there was excellent, and it's too bad M. ignored it :P

[jenrose]

*shrug*

No skin off my nose.
I can pontificate, they don't have to listen. ;)

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

That is the awesomest icon ever.

Just for the hell of it, I tried something similar a while back -- visualizing positive things, etc. and I don't think my positives were any higher than they would have been had I simply sat on my ass and whined.

It's when the idiots start going on about vibrational energy and allied garbage that my brain pulls a Homer -- "You can stay, but I'm out of here!" -- and I slink away in disgust :P

[kmgwinegal.livejournal.com]

I just read that whole thread. Gar! I was particularly appalled by M's assertion that "science" is whateverthefuck you want it to be. It's that same jaw-dropping ignorance that makes 2 out of 3 Americans deny evolution.

The other thing that boggles my little rationalist mind is: why the heck would the universe care whether or not I got [a new job, designer handbag, nasty lump in my breast] anyway?

Do you know what is driving this to become such a cult phenomenon? The level of evangelizing that surrounds "The Secret" is really impressive (in a scary way).

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

I know -- that's where my brain turned off and I unsubbed. I mean, it's one thing to believe stupid things, but you can't take a word that means something and make it into what you want it to say -- I was hoping the Alice quote would bring that across. Words have meaning because people agree on their definition -- jargon words in particular -- and if you change the meaning, you've made them useless for that context. But try explaining that.

Evangelizing, and wow, are they raking in the bucks! I wonder if they really believe their shit, or if, like early Scientology, it's an act? The cynic in me pictures them rolling around in piles of money, cackling at the gullibility of the public.

[pudgybudgie.livejournal.com]

I don't know of this thread of which you speak, but this reminds me of the "there is no right or wrong,just different perceptions" people...what a bunch of bullshit.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Yup. Some needs to beat these people about the head and neck with a clue by four.

[pudgybudgie.livejournal.com]

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2007/02/the_secret.html

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Fantastico! Must to bookmark site.

[oscarmama.livejournal.com]

I'm not a member of TBW, but it sounds an awful lot like the argument I got into on Usenet with a UU who wanted to fight about a tautology and drag in Heisenberg to back herself up. So yeah, unsub now. :-)

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah.

Others have made very good points on the thread -- particularly Jenrose -- and they were just totally ignored.

There's no point in discussing matters of substance with folks whose minds are so closed they won't even consider alternatives :P

[kris1225.livejournal.com]

Drives me nuts. I don't have the stomach to go over there and look at said discussion, but I am sure I would agree with you.

People always ask me what my secret is and I say, "I work my ass off and borderline neglect my family and home." But that's not as easy/sexy/fun/cool/mystical as wishing/visualizing.

And I think positive thinking is definitely a mindset and that if you are positive and think about your goals, you are more likely take steps to achieve. I believe the same thing about prayer. Prayer 'works' because when you pray you are setting goals and then go off to make things happen. It's not divine. Did you ever see that study they did on prayer and hospital outcomes? There was no difference in outcomes between those who were prayed for and those who weren't.