CA prop 8

[jan_andrea]

I'm really happy that Obama won... but completely and utterly disgusted that Prop Hate (8) passed in California.

Personally, I think all the people who voted "Yes" should have their state-sanctioned marriages dissolved. See how they like it when a simple majority says, "Fuck you, you can't get married because we think it's icky!"

I'm really appalled by this.

In all honesty, if you live in CA and you voted to support Prop 8? Please remove me from your friends list, because I don't want to be friends with anyone who can support that sort of repulsive use of a ballot initiative and still look themselves in the mirror in the morning. This is especially true if you voted for it against your own conscience. That is just fucking wrong. What is your conscience for, if not to tell you what's right and what's wrong? Blind obedience is worse than ignorance. If you can vote to take away someone else's rights, you're no friend of mine. Period. I can tolerate/sympathize with/understand a lot of things in a friend, but some things are just deal-breakers, and this is one of them.

ETA: This is a nice summation.
And this an even better one.

Comments

[thinkdanni.livejournal.com]

couldn't agree more. I hate the political tactics they used, playing on fears with kids that are totally unfounded. Me and the kids went out this weekend campaigning against 8 :( A very sad day today.

and I can't believe it, but Arkansas passed a law banning gay people from adopting. I thought our country was moving forward :(

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Very sad, indeed :( Had you seen this ad?



'Bout sums it up.

I was also completely appalled by the other anti-gay ballot measures. Just senseless. Imagine if ballot measures like this had been available during segregationist times! Can you picture a state constitution amended to ban mixed-race couples? Because that's exactly what would have gone down :( Same shit, different decade :(

[ounceofreason.livejournal.com]

It passed?? Shit. I hadn't seen any word one way or the other this morning... dammit.

East Coast > West Coast

[thinkdanni.livejournal.com]

98% of precincts have reported in with 52% yes and 48% no, they are still saying that they can't call it yet so right now there is no "official" word, but its not good :(

[thinkdanni.livejournal.com]

sorry 95% reporting....

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/ballot.measures/

[mollyf.livejournal.com]

I'm holding out hope! I can't believe it. I'm astounded.

[thinkdanni.livejournal.com]

at least my county was 62% no..... I just wish the rest of the state was the same.

its Monetery county! they are the last that needs to finish reporting in.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

How does Monterey tend to lean? Is there still hope (I hope!)?

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I just looked at the county-by-county results, and it doesn't look like it's going to be defeated, numerically, based on what's left to report. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/county/#CAI01p1

[thinkdanni.livejournal.com]

yeah I don't think there is hope :( Monterey is currently slightly in favor, but then down south riverside also has some more reporting to do and they are strongly yes :( ugh!

[mollyf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my county is 66% no.

Is there hope? It's looking grim. Damn.

[joy-disaster.livejournal.com]

oh my frickin... I can't believe this is even up for vote - CIVIL RIGHTS ARE NOT UP FOR VOTING! SInce when do rights get to go up for a majority vote? This is tyranny by majority which is what would have happened if Brown vs Board of Education had gone to vote - we'd still have segregation. I am sick and ashamed. The idea of a ballot measure to take away rights is sickening.

[mollyf.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[cad-red-ducati.livejournal.com]

maybe it's time for CA to fall into the ocean.

well no, but I agree with you 100% this is sad day to see this prop pass.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Hee :) Hey, when the next earthquake comes, the religious nuts can't claim it's because of gay marriage... and I think I'd be inclined to say, "See, God/dess is mad that you took away their rights!"

[dreamalynn.livejournal.com]

The thing which really makes me sickest about the whole Prop 8 thing is that the Yes campaign, with all of its lies, I mean blatant lies, and fearmongering, and attempts to divert the point away from "removing rights from people by fiat" to shrill "but the children" bullshit, was majority funded by members of a particular religion, from out of state. In essence, California's political system just became Utah's bitch.

I still don't understand it. I especially don't understand how Prop 8 passed in Los Angeles county. I mean, Hollywood? What? It's insanity.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

I know -- it was such an ugly campaign. Just despicable.

Some have suggested going after Mormons' right to marry, since they're a minority group, just to turn the tables. Except that being Mormon is a choice, etc. It's really a shame that they (among the other sponsoring groups) can't understand what they just did.

[dreamalynn.livejournal.com]

I've seen more than a few cynical mentions that this is not about a deeply felt opposition to homosexuality as much as it is about "you f'ed with our marriage choices, now we've got the money to turn the tables."

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

OMG, I hadn't thought of it that way, but heh.

OTOH, I'm all for polygamy/polyandry, as long as it's amongst fully consenting adults (i.e. no forced child marriages, obviously) and even legal recognition of poly families, so I'm not one to cast aspersions about Mormon polygamy (when it's consensual). Not something I'm interested in myself, but if it works for a group of people, why not let it be legal?

I would draw the line at animals, though. They can't consent :)

[dreamalynn.livejournal.com]

Consent for me is the issue, as the way that the FLDS offshoots practice polygamy isn't anywhere near consensual. If it were, then yeah, go for it.

And that's not my opinion just because it might be personally useful. ;)

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Yep, it's all about consent. I was a big Heinlein fan back in the day, and while I don't feel the need for a big poly family now, I'd hardly be one to deny others the right.

[lissie930.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Living in a state where marriage is legal for gays and straights, I have to say...I don't think my marriage has been impacted by my friends having the right to marry anymore than it's been impacted by the high divorce rate among heterosexuals.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

You know, when they passed the civil unions bill here in NH, I turned to David and said, "Well, I guess we have to get divorced and find same-sex partners! It's really our only choice, now that civil unions are legal." Tongue-in-cheek of course, and we were both very happy that it passed... but is that what opponents think is going to happen? It's just baffling to me.

[lissie930.livejournal.com]

Of course, I'm one of those folks who would be perfectly fine with not limiting marriage to two people either. :) I mean, if you can *make* a poly relationship work to that point, go you! I just don't get it. The only times I tend to feel like my marriage is...impacted? influenced? by someone else's are when the other marriage (a) fails and makes me appreciate my lovely husband all the more; (b) sucks and makes me appreciate my lovely husband all the more; or (c) is really good and makes me appreciate my lovely husband all the more. As my dad says, I wouldn't support MANDATORY homosexual marriage for all, but CONSENSUAL marriage is great. :)

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

That's too funny -- I was just writing that as a reply to Dreamalynn above :D

[lissie930.livejournal.com]

Exactly! The "marrying animals" and "marrying children" arguments just don't hold because they can't consent.

I don't know, I just think that if the republicans REALLY and TRULY want *less* government, get the fuck out of my marriage, my bedroom, and my body. *ahem* Yeah. Sorry for the swearing.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's always bothered me, too. Like, dude, there's no freedom involved in *restricting* people's rights! And they're worried now that Obama will "take away their freedoms". Come on. Bush did more to take away individuals' freedoms than any president I've ever known. That's a bit of a soapbox for me, too. And don't worry about the swearing :D

[lissie930.livejournal.com]

Well, I do hope that Obama limits the religious right's freedom to impose their values on the rest of the country.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

LOL -- good point :D

[nice-heart.livejournal.com]

Yeah... and here in Florida where we actually went BLUE!!! we also passed amendment 2, same bs.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

I know, it was really disheartening :(

[geeki.livejournal.com]

The fact that San Diego was in favor of prop 8 as a majority....
I just...

I need to move.
I cried this morning.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

{{Hugs}} It really is stunning, isn't it?

Hopefully court challenges will keep it from being retroactive, but gah.

[mix3d3m0ti0n5.livejournal.com]

you rock.

i think there was only one staunch non-obama person on my list. if she was the mccain party, I could see her being one of those that booed.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Thanks :)

You know, I listened to his speech live, and I thought he was incredibly gracious... and was just totally embarrassed for him by those supporters. Then again, he and Palin spent the last 5 months telling those supporters that they should be scared, hurt, defensive, and otherwise provided them with booing fodder, so I can't be too surprised :(

[mix3d3m0ti0n5.livejournal.com]

me, too. He was the McCain I've always respected, at that speech.

McCain about 10 years ago would have been a decent president. I've followed him for several years (I used to be directly involved a bit in politics - yeah, so of it is the nature of my job, but I'm talking prior to working for gov't. I was raised in a pretty active family - democrat in a very republican area. I had to promise to tony not to be all political, as he knew some of the workings I've done. Hey, I was raised to be very civically involved.

I was always more obama focused and have followed him since he was just a low guy in IL, but the Palin chick basically sealed the deal for me.

[meadowrue.livejournal.com]

This is terrible. The Mormon church's involvement in this proposition has been disgusting enough to get me to finally write and get my name off of their records. I didn't really care before since I don't believe in anything they have to say about pretty much anything. But at this point I don't even want to be a blip on their statistics when they calculate their numbers.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Good for you :D

I've been trying to get David to get himself excommunicated (he grew up Catholic); I think he'll probably do it once his grandparents have passed on.

[allyphoe.livejournal.com]

You know, I think you're right.

I'm not going to repost this in my blog, because I do not want the drama. But I know someone who fits that description, and I think I'm going to go quietly trim.

[jan-andrea.livejournal.com]

Enjoy ;) The person I thought this might apply to on my list has not yet commented nor trimmed me, so perhaps s/he voted differently after all. I hope that's the case.